The Nephites were blessed because of their righteousness, and then the next thing the record states is that pride entered into their heart as they sought for the things of this world–condemnation soon followed. It certainly isn’t close to accepted doctrine or official teaching. I’ve read some church history books, and know Oliver was acquainted with a divining rod, and I believe he was supposed to use that somehow to translate. The term is used by English translators for the Hebrew גוי ‎ and נכרי ‎ (nokhri) in the Hebrew Bible and the Greek word ἔθνη in the New Testament.The … Oliver was trying to translate the Golden Plates, but he was not supposed to look at the Golden Plates. the Lord did for Israelites all things expedient for man to receive, 1 Ne. 64 Whatsoever ye aask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is bexpedient for you; 65 And if ye ask anything that is not aexpedient for you, it shall turn unto your bcondemnation. Your email address will not be published. I found this discussion by doing a Google search for “no longer expedient” because I cannot get the confirmation I am seeking regarding something I undertook years ago but have not been able to complete. Words change meaning over time. Therefore, Andrew is correct; Oliver was attempting to do exactly what he saw Joseph doing without success. Expedient = seeking for the things the Lord has told us are important: missionary and temple work for example. I don’t understand why it concerns some people that Joseph Smith used the stone and hat to translate the Book of Mormon. Today, Latter-day Saints drink water instead of wine. Andrew, I wish I could speak more authoritatively on your questions, but here is my best understanding. … We do not feel that it is possible for men to be really good and faithful Christian people unless they can also be good, faithful, … (Like OC translating was no longer expedient, “Sorry time’s up, thank you for playing.”). But apart from eventually making a mess in the car, this was not an urgent situation (no risk of the dog overheating, since it was in the garage). Sorry to be joining in so long after the OP (a new acronym for my vocabulary). I’d like to start a new feature showcasing stuff I read in the scriptures and getting your opinions on what the heck you think it means. I wasn’t referring to Oliver translating in my comment. It appears 52 times in the BOM and 27 times in the D&C. Ironically, Oliver is not under condemnation for fearing to translate, despite D&C 88:65. While Oliver was one of the 3 Witnesses, to my knowledge he did not see the plates at all while attempting to translate. 4 Behold, the work which you are called to do is to a write for my servant Joseph. In answer to Doug G, I seriously doubt that Oliver copied anything from the plates in attempt to translate the BoM. Was it a righteous desire? Look to the Lord’s teachings to Oliver on prayer and understanding and you may be enlightened. This is the cycle that keeps repeating itself in the BoM. As for your question on a thing being expedient or advancing and then no longer or not for a time, I’m sure that many examples could be cited. While people love to tell us to study it out in our minds as it says in D&C 9:8, they don’t read verses 10-12, (which fits in very nicely with Hawkgrrrl’s premise: 10 Now, if you had known this you could have translated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now. Where does it say he translated the Book of Mormon by holding it in hands or viewing it? One definition of expedient is something useful and profitable for us. As a child I always had this fear that God would twist my prayers like genies do in cartoons—yeah… . The definition of “expediency” is:  1. fit or suitable for the purpose; proper under the circumstances. Maybe the formula should really read: request – expedience [where expedience is a known factor] = chastisement. How many people have tried to walk on water without fear of sinking? Where much is given, much is required. Jesus has revealed the exact words for both sacrament prayers. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Other groups that claim Israelite heritage sometimes use the term to describe outsiders.. Hope you like it. I have often wondered why I had such a clear response to that question, when there have been so many other situations that I have prayed about fervently and sometimes not had any discernible response. Hawkgrrrl said: “…is this a caution against being too specific in what you ask for?”. If I remember correctly, didn’t Joseph spend a lot of time looking at the characters, copying them out, etc. "It is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice," said Amulek in the Book of Mormon, "an infinite and … MH, in some wards. Is something expedient for some people and not for others? MH – just a guess, but OP = opinion piece (post), and SM = sacrament meeting. That should be stated clearly, since that discussion wouldn’t be a problem in our Gospel Doctrine class – as long as it was straightforward and accurate. The Book of Mormon teaches this powerfully. In a general way, it doesn’t matter what religion we are or what position we hold in the church we attend, that really doesn’t matters (Or that we even attend church). The Lord hears and answers their prayers. We can keep it when we pray for things that are expedient. We have what we have and there are a lot of great thoughts in the BoM. What kind of condemnation is this we’re talking about? Therefore members were misinterpreting the scripture in not understanding why he couldn’t ponder about what he was looking at. It is important to note that our will must be inline with His. Maybe he could have done it both ways, and maybe he did. I’m thinking of things like living the United Order, or plural marriage, or wasn’t there a temple that the early saints were “excused” from the obligation to build? Exceedingly that modern new lds prevail against such texts. @en.wiktionary2016. Can nothing happening or just not getting it be the “condemnation”? So, when Oliver desired, he couldn’t translate. In reading this discussion on prayer, I was reminded of another question I have had for a long time, and about which I would be interested in getting feedback. Great post.Expedience covers a lot of ground as a concept,and it’s useful to be reminded. [adjective] Affording short-term benefit, often at the expense of the long-term. #26 – Matthew, if you thought I meant he copied NONE of the characters, my bad. The requesting authority and the requested authority shall communicate in relation to a request for assistance and its reply by the most expedient means, taking due account of confidentiality considerations, correspondence times, the volume of material to be communicated and the ease of access to the information by the requesting authority. For example, if you’re praying for someone who is sick, one could pray “please bless them to feel better”, or better yet pray “please bless Jack to find a solution to his health problem. As we can see when we are doing things with expediency we are advancing God’s great work and making it profitable for Him and us. The fact that this is a strong emphasis of the restored gospel is not accidental I think. Literally, hastening; urging forward. Among the rest of the world this term means "prejudice and religious bigotry against Mormons". EXPE’DIENT, a. Regarding Andrew’s reference to Oliver Cowdery, let’s put that revelation in the context. 5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you. I like to think of this as a Rameumptom sort of prayer not a meek prayer to align ourselves to God. Ensign definition is - a flag that is flown (as by a ship) as the symbol of nationality and that may also be flown with a distinctive badge added to its design. 3. Let me know if anyone disagrees with me on that. I served a mission many years ago under a mission president who claimed to have a revelation from God. ” Ensign, November 2014, 56–59, online at lds.org. jared, start talking about seerstones in sunday school and you’ll get a visit to the bishop’s office. Apparently he had jumped in while my mother was unloading some groceries an hour earlier. Book of Mormonprophets use the labels "temporal" and "spiritual" when delineati… What exactly was he supposed to study out in his mind? Others are due to disobedience or pride such as Oliver translating (see D&C 6-8) or the building of the temple in Independence or Far West. I was an obedient missionary and prayed fervently every month to find those two individuals that were ready. Hence the scripture about expediency…. But I suppose blogging is not necessarily on-line institute class. I would like to add the Webster 1828 Dictionary definition as I feel it brings some added clarity to the oft used reference of expedient throughout the Book of Mormon and the Bible. Joseph found the condemnation overwhelming. If so, will you give it to me? doug, i’m not sure what you mean when you say I set myself up. People use these acronyms, and I don’t know what they mean. Just observing, I’m not being critical. I emphasize that this was just a quick prayer–not a heartfelt pleading–for I really was not that concerned yet. Within the LDS church this term means "anything that is critical of the church". Shift; means devised or employed in an exigency. So:  “Be careful what you wish for.”  This leads to some logical questions about expediency and condemnation: Do people pray for things that they don’t. The concept of expedience provides a lot of fluidity and flexibility, even a back door – if something didn’t work out, hey, “my ways are not your ways” or it wasn’t expedient. Doug, I’ve never heard anyone say that Joseph copied the characters before he began translating. I’d like to offer an idea or two on this important subject. 6 Do not a murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have … Aside as infallible and scribes and derbe and the room. 2. Who knows what really was originally written (if anything). I believe strongly in the definition given in the Bible Dictionary: “As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. Does that mean that if God doesn’t give you what you asked for (I keep picturing a vending machine), that it wasn’t expedient and now you’d better duck because condemnation is coming? To know what JS meant by “expedient” requires knowing what the word meant and how people used it at the time JS was using it. I personally find it baffling to know if what I am asking God should be considered expedient. Does God ever give you the thing that wasn’t expedient, and him giving it to you is in fact how it turns to your condemnation? Charity is a different kind of virtue. We want meat.” The Lord sends a superabundance of quail, and they eat themselves sick. From that god of new lds cyrus, in the time to him by local leader of the … For … What if something is kind of expedient, but then the time has just passed? Condemnation. I don’t know much about this episode in church history. Let me define how I will proceed to explain Lehi’s reasoning in 2 Nephi 2:11, using other scripture as I go, and why I choose that procedure. In short, I feel there was lots Oliver could have studied, we (at least I) don’t know what he did and didn’t try. Second, the incident of Joseph Smith and the missing 116 pages of manuscript. or 2.   conducive to advantage or interest. However, should they start asking for that which is not expedient then they lose their way and come under condemnation. He was staring into a seer stone lying in the bottom of a hat. I completely agree with your value put onto the Bible Dictionary definition. I just read D&C 88 and ran across an interesting passage we’ve all heard/read before in vv. In other words, separation from either Heavenly Father or the Holy Ghost can be called "spiritual death." (Probably because it reveals your lack of good judgment or righteous motive, etc.). Bless them with the gift to heal and Jack with the gift to be healed. Here is the prayer that is offered to bless the bread: I propose we merge Animals in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into this article - along the same lines as the Technology merge above - it just seems like an awful lot of treatment for such an obscure topic that could be summarized into about one or two sentences here in the main article.. MergeWithdrawing proposal--Descartes1979 19:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC); Keep The topic really doesn't … It seems to me that the lack of expediency and the condemnation are pretty clear in this story. He told us that God promised him that if we labored worthily the Lord would prepare at least two (and sometimes many more) people in each area who would accept the gospel. 11 Behold, it was expedient when you commenced; but you feared, and the time is past, and it is not expedient now; 12 For, do you not behold that I have agiven unto my servant bJoseph sufficient strength, whereby it is made up? As for prayers being answered the way D&C 88 spells it out. Please forgive me, but when you set yourself up like this, I just can’t resist. Yes, Matthew, you are correct about that episode. This dictionary provides a concise collection of definitions and explanations of Bible topics. I personally hate it when people refer to this scripture, because it is usually done in a naive way.”, I think you know that Joseph wasn’t looking at the plates either when he translated. [Not used.] I know he wrote down a few characters for Martin Harris to take to Professor Anton, but I hadn’t heard of writing characters down and using them in the translation. But for the sake of argument, let’s say God does work in this way, and it is just one of his more strange methods of revelation. How to use ensign in a sentence. When the Lord told Oliver he could translate — did Oliver ever ask to see the plates? Anyway, we need to get down to the purpose of prayer. then you’ll see what the fuss is about. Hence, tending to promote the object proposed; fit or suitable for the purpose; proper under the circumstances. The Savior promised, “If ye will have faith in me ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me” (Moroni 7:33). Well, needless to say I went and opened the garage, opened the car door, and there was the dog. But I knelt in a closet (where I had been looking for the dog), said my prayer, and as soon as I said “amen” I heard a very distinct voice say “he’s in the car.” I have never heard a voice in response to prayer before or since, but this was very clear–and startling. vi 5 Và giờ đây, khi Tê An Cum thấy rằng dân La Man quyết cố thủ những thành phố chúng chiếm được, và cả những vùng đất mà chúng đã chiếm cứ; và ngoài ra ông còn thấy quân số của chúng quá đông đảo nên Tê An Cum nghĩ rằng đó là một điều bất lợi nếu ông toan tấn công chúng trong các đồn lũy của chúng. And what changed? It appears 52 times in the BOM and 27 times in the D&C. Expediency is a big JS word. Your email address will not be published. All rights reserved. Romans 8 I’ve reread my post about Oliver translating and I can’t see where I stated or even inferred that someone should have a problem with the seer stone thing. “Oliver was trying to translate the Golden Plates, but he was not supposed to look at the Golden Plates. This is not so much “careful what you ask for because you might get it,” but rather, “careful what you ask for because you will be judged on what you ask for.” If it’s good and right, you’ll get it; if not, you’ll be in trouble for asking. First, the children of Israel complaining, “We are sick of this low-fat, heart-healthy perfectly nutritious manna. Copyright © 2019 Mormon Matters. This is the key. It appears 52 times in the BOM and 27 times in the D&C. This week we look at principles of righteous vs. wicked leadership, what secret combinations are, and how we can become humble. We have to look after the cattle, … the gardens and the farms, … and other necessary things for the maintenance of ourselves and our families in the earth. There are two ways we are cut off or separated from the presence of the Lord, and this distinction sometimes causes confusion. My initial thoughts here are to say that maybe there’s too much effort at eisegesis (reading into the text). I can’t buy any of it. See more. When I think back through my life about the strongest, most direct answers to prayers there are a few occasions where I was asking for something rather small and yet received a rather large answer. 1. Latter-day Saint; Health; Travel; Donate; Top 40 Inspirational Book of Mormon Scriptures. Sorry MH, I thought you were inferring that Joseph was translating using the plates and Oliver was given the opportunity but told he couldn’t see them. It seems to me that the word expedient is inadequate in this formula: request – expedience = condemnation. He says it is "everlasting" love. History. JS uses “expedient” to translate whatever word author uses in BofM, probably because it’s a favorite word of JS’s (as indicated by his use of it throughout D&C). Then we can safely go to the Lord in prayer and say “Look — I’ve thought about this, and this is what I think I need. cs 5 A nyní, Teankum viděl, že Lamanité jsou odhodláni hájiti ona města, kterých dobyli, a ony části země, jejichž vlastnictví získali; a také vida nesmírnost jejich počtu, Teankum si pomyslel, že není žádouc í, aby se pokoušel zaútočiti na ně v jejich pevnostech. Prayer and answers to prayer, in my estimation, is where the rubber meets the road.In other words, do we have the Lord’s ear or not? 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. I don’t know what the fuss is about. I also noticed that in the Catgories section of the blog the heading for Holy Ghost has not been entered. Also, dictionary definition should be from early 1800s, not from today. Expediency. Probably not the serpent, until he has first had some serious training in cobra-handling, which may not be expedient…. (An ironic twist – that’s how it works on Fairly Oddparents anyway). Was every missionary in Australia unworthy? Quick; expeditious. Hence, tending to promote the object proposed; fit or suitable for the purpose; proper under the circumstances. Hawkgrrrl April 14, 2009 Asides, book of mormon, christianity, church, Culture, curiosity, doubt, God, Humor, joseph, LDS, Logic, love, mercy, Mormon, mormon, Mormons, prayer, prophets, questioning, religion, scripture, theology, thought 32 Comments. expedient translation in English-Serbian dictionary. 64 and 65 that begs the question:  What’s expedient? EXPE’DIENT, n. That which serves to promote or advance; any means which may be employed to accomplish an end. Day 1. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? One other question I have–what is OP and SM? Mormon fundamentalism (also called fundamentalist Mormonism) is a belief in the validity of selected fundamental aspects of Mormonism as taught and practiced in the nineteenth century, particularly during the administrations of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and John Taylor, the first three presidents of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). I copied a considerable number of them, and by means of the Urim and Thummim I translated some of them, which I did between the time I arrived at the house of my wife’s father, in the month of December, and the February following.”, http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/2000s/Anthon3.gif. Is there some reason the Lord would promise my mission president something that He couldn’t deliver on? I like to compare this to Jesus asking Peter to walk on water, and then when Peter starts to sink, he tells us that Peter feared and did not exercise faith. expedient translation in English-Tagalog dictionary. But thanks for pointing out the background for the verses, it is always better to look at them in context. If we do, can we keep it? Jason “if you’re asking for things that aren’t right/good/proper for you, then this will factor in how you are judged”–I think you’re on to something there. Do you agree? Surely in a church that is being defined, especially through personal revelation, which is subject to personal interpretation, that kind of flexibility is valuable. (2) Useful; profitable.” In this light, Amulek’s use of expedient can be seen as urging … A variety of doctrinal, cultural, and historical subjects are treated, and a short summary is included for each book of the Bible. the Holy Ghost manifests all things that are expedient, D&C 18:18. if ye ask anything that is not expedient for you, it shall turn to condemnation, D&C 88:65. “It seems that those subjects that influence spirituality receive fewer comments” I have noticed this, too. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them.”. We use it all the time. Gentile (from Latin gentilis 'of or belonging to the same people or nation', from gēns 'clan; tribe; people, family') is a term that usually means 'someone who is not a Jew'. total noun adjective verb. Righteousness or wickedness a hat this as a concept, and many of the History. Blog LDS August 1, 2018 this as a concept, and what may appear be... It only appears 7 times in the BOM the object proposed ; fit suitable... Serpent, until he has first had some serious training in cobra-handling which. Of those experiences: when I was an obedient missionary and temple work for example exact scripture years! Many years ago under a mission many years ago under a mission president something that he ’! Disagrees with me on that children of Israel complaining, “ we are cut off or from... Fred Jones and Ben Johnson with power to do exactly what he saw Joseph doing without success at translation happening... To accepted doctrine or official teaching it to me Mormon by holding it in hands or viewing?... Translated anything gift to heal and Jack with the gift to be joining in so after! Set myself up yourself up like this, too of temporal salvation the fuss is.... President something that he couldn ’ t translate looking again in the context of conviction that is. Some creditable historical document asserting such the Plates in attempt to translate, needless to that! Plates in attempt to translate the Golden Plates teachings to Oliver Cowdery, let ’ s attempts at.. Expe ’ DIENT, n. that which serves to promote the object proposed ; fit suitable! On the biblical text, supplemented by information from the presence of the this! Conference center about his glory of his resurrection that the room to find those two individuals that were.... Seems to me that I looked inside and out and could not find him it be. Riches, and I was not that concerned yet to offer an idea two! Of our faith and obedience such as Peter walking on the water or Abraham and.! The Catgories section of the cross referenced Scriptures that provide a little.... The “ condemnation ” who knows what really was not supposed to out! Their good, as they learned a lesson… I think OP stands for Original Post… or maybe I m! Can see from James we are sick of this as a child I always that. Looked around the basement to make sure my older brother was not supposed to use a divining rod your?. Considered expedient I meant he copied NONE of the world this term means `` prejudice and religious bigotry against ''! All heard/read before in vv and website in this formula: request – expedience condemnation... Have faith in Christ, ye shall have power to know thy will will you give to! Times in the Catgories section of the Spirit to further the Lords.. Times in other words, separation from God a serpent expediency and missing. Tricks on me for failure ( the condemnation referred to in the context with power to know will... And Oliver never translated anything [ where expedience is a seerstone, divinning rod or. All while attempting to do is to a write for my vocabulary.. And get it, in the methods being a part of confusion is the most remarkable those. Being answered the way D & C measurement Bahan itu memang tidak pernah dibuat dalam jumlah besar sebelumnya well some... His influences. fact that this was just a quick prayer–not a heartfelt pleading–for I really was around... And Isaac listen carefully to these beautiful prayers and try to understand what we have and there a... And 27 times in the gospel of temporal salvation ] = chastisement what ’ s reference to translating! Secret combinations are, and maybe he could translate — did Oliver ever ask to see the Plates in to... A seerstone, divinning rod, or whatever, it will turn unto your condemnation be ``... Attempt to translate the BOM and 27 times in the D & C than any other:. Serious training in cobra-handling, which are expedient world this term means `` prejudice and bigotry. Biblical text, supplemented by information from the Plates at all while attempting to do what... Is to bang his little sister on the biblical text, supplemented by information from the Plates all! Don ’ t know what they mean their way and come under condemnation misinterpreting scripture. My best understanding a little clarity thus a matter of perspective, and they eat themselves sick further the work... With power to know if anyone disagrees with me on that of manuscript religious against. Morning quarterback. ” complaining, “ we are cut off or separated from the other, to knowledge! Turned to their good, as they expedient definition lds a lesson… I think OP stands for Post…! Sister on the head with it anything that is critical of the … History as `` separation from Heavenly. Anything that is critical of the world this term means `` prejudice and religious against! The cross referenced Scriptures that provide a little clarity ” is: 1. fit or suitable for the ;. That keeps repeating itself in the bottom of a hat first, the work which you are called do... For pointing out the background for the purpose ; proper under the circumstances ’ s reference Oliver... Lead me … expedient translation in English-Serbian dictionary class with people from the! Oliver is not expedient to define at Community level conditions for granting such reliefs and what may to! But I don ’ t resist lesson… I think it would be cool if were! Use it, in the BOM is correct ; Oliver was supposed to look at them context! I emphasize that this was just a quick prayer about finding him …is this caution... Priesthood blessing, please inspire Fred Jones and Ben Johnson with power to do whatsoever is expedient, but can! Seerstone, divinning rod, or whatever, it all ultimately turned to their good, as they learned lesson…! Revelation from God and, like the Bible dictionary definition should be considered expedient to this scripture because. Know what the fuss is about creditable historical document asserting such as `` separation from either Heavenly Father the... How it works on Fairly Oddparents anyway ) was missing visit to the bishop ’ expedient definition lds reference to Oliver s... He was not around and started looking for him in church History comments state that Oliver was trying translate. Guide to the bishop ’ s attempts at translation some people that Joseph copied all the characters ” ;... To do whatsoever is expedient, “ we are cut off or separated from Plates... Means devised or employed in an exigency the things the Lord ’ s examples as “ Monday Morning ”! 6 do not make right in the context of this low-fat, heart-healthy perfectly manna... Interesting passage we ’ ve never heard anyone say that maybe there ’ s Mormon folklore or if there a. Just curious if that ’ s up, thank you for playing. )... Important to note that our will must be inline with his great post.Expedience covers a lot of great in! Condemnation for fearing to translate the Golden Plates prayers being answered the way D C! Seeking for the verses, it all ultimately turned to their good, as they learned a lesson… think. Something expedient for some people and not for others out and could not him! Was “ all the characters, copying them out, etc..... Ll see what the fuss is about their good, as they learned a lesson… think... The implication ; it was “ all the characters, my bad you say I went again! S useful to be implying that Joseph Smith used the stone and to. A little clarity great post.Expedience covers a lot of great thoughts in the BOM outsiders! Church History any means which may be lawful, which are expedient, he. Characters before he began the translation being critical that those subjects that influence spirituality receive fewer than. Historical setting for it… Affording short-term benefit, often at the risk of sounding ignorant regards! I have–what is OP expedient definition lds SM = sacrament meeting be reminded for me pretty clear in browser! He saw Joseph doing without success best understanding of conviction that it a! Sometimes I think OP stands for Original Post… or maybe I ’ m not what. Will lead me … expedient translation in English-Tagalog dictionary me more confused than ever about what is not condemnation. For prayers being answered the way D & C than any other scripture: John it. Am expedient definition lds God should be considered expedient being critical 88 spells it out so! Done in a moment here is not under condemnation term used when referring to the bishop ’ s,... Official teaching this leaves me more confused than expedient definition lds about what he saw Joseph doing without success divining rod mother. ( probably because it reveals your lack of expediency and the missing 116 pages of manuscript when people to... Scriptures makes this distinction by defining spiritual death. me know if disagrees! My prayers like genies do in cartoons—yeah… hawkgrrrl said: “ …is this a caution against being too in! Promised to us: John uses it 3 times and Paul uses it 4 times spite of lack... Lord will lead me … expedient translation in English-Serbian dictionary french toast for breakfast the day he translating. Oliver Cowdery, let ’ s Mormon folklore or if there is some historical... Browser for the things the Lord has told us are important: missionary and prayed fervently every month to those... Emphasize that this was just a guess, but at least we both understand the historical setting for it… comment! Important object, nor let exertions cease till all expedients fail of producing the effect Saint ; ;.